Chattin' with the Chief: Concealed-Carry Concerns

Following its work session before their regular meeting on September 16, the Carbon County School District No. 2 Board of Trustees has formed a working group to work on a concealed-carry policy for district employees.

This process, following state statute passed in 2017, is happening at the same time the Joint Judiciary Committee is proposing yet another bill to repeal gun-free zones in Wyoming. The most recent attempt, House Bill 125, passed both chambers of the Legislature but was vetoed by Governor Mark Gordon.

“It’s a shame that we’re in a position where we have to worry about these types of things in the school district. Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that we need to do [allow concealed carry],” said Saratoga Police Chief Mike Morris. “I know the Legislature is working on repealing the gun-free zone statutes that are applicable right now. Not knowing what’s going to happen, I think the school district has taken a proactive approach in order to address it.”

Morris, who was appointed as police chief in 2023 by Mayor Chuck Davis, was unable to attend the work session. A former deputy for the Carbon County Sheriff’s Office, Morris said he agreed with much of what was suggested by Carbon County Sheriff Alex Bakken and Encampment Police Chief Kevin Shue. Bakken and Shue were both in attendance on September 16.

Like his peers in law enforcement, Morris also has concerns about allowing district employees to concealed-carry on district property.

“I’m worried about having another weapon inside the facility not knowing what we’re dealing with when we get there,” said Morris. “Those things can be worked out with good policy and training aspects, as well.”

Under Wyoming State Statute 21-3-132(f), the school district superintendent is required to provide all local law enforcement of the location and names of all employees who have received permission to concealed-carry in school buildings. Beyond that, however, the identities of those district employees are confidential and not subject to the Wyoming Public Records Act.

“I do think it’d be a good idea for law enforcement to have that list. We’re fortunate enough, here in Saratoga, that we spend quite a bit of time in and around the schools and with teachers. The ability for Saratoga Police Officers to know who’s carrying in the schools is a good thing,” said Morris. “It would be even more important if we were dispatched to a scene in Encampment, where I’m not as familiar with the school teachers, or Hanna for that matter.”

According to Morris, in the event of a school shooting anywhere in Carbon County School District No. 2, multiple agencies would likely respond.

“An officer here in Saratoga may not personally know a teacher or somebody that might be carrying in one of the other schools,” said Morris.

A number of the concerns over district employees being allowed to concealed-carry would likely be resolved with training, said Morris. Under Wyoming State Statute 21-3-132, employees requesting concealed-carry must undergo an initial training course which would include at least 16 hours of live fire handgun training and eight hours of scenario-based training using “nonlethal training, firearms and ammunition.” Following that, they would need to go through an annual recertification of 12 hours of training.

During the work session, Bakken said he viewed the statutory required training as a minimum. This is something Morris also agrees with.

“Anytime they set standards like that, it’s absolutely a minimum. I think not just individual training, but training with the local law enforcement would be a good idea, too,” said Morris. “When you train together you come to an understanding and, again, we would be building that relationship and knowing what to expect from each other.”

When discussing training during the work session, Shue suggested district employees should undergo training similar to law enforcement officers regarding responding to a scene in plain clothes. Again, Morris agreed with his law enforcement counterpart that such training would be important to the success of a concealed-carry policy.

He added that, in a small community like Saratoga, there would be a chance of a local off-duty officer responding who would be recognized by other law enforcement. In large communities, that may not always be the case whether the person was an off-duty officer or an armed citizen trying to help, said Morris. One example is the June 2021 shooting in Arvada, Colorado when John Hurley neutralized an active shooter. At the time, responding officers believed Hurley to be a second suspect and shot him, resulting in his death.

“We’re back to training and expectations. When we go into a situation like that and we see somebody with a firearm and they are not following our commands, they’re a threat,” said Morris. “There needs to be an understanding of the expectations.”

When discussing a potential policy on September 16, some members of the Board of Trustees and district employees expressed concern over a repeal of the gun-free zone status for schools especially during high-emotion events such as sporting events. According to Morris, however, he believes Wyoming is different than some other states in how its citizens treat firearms.

I think [with] the culture we live in here in Wyoming, we are much more used to firearms so it’s much different than some of our coasts where most people don’t have guns. I would venture to say that most families or residences have a form of firearms whether it’s for hunting, personal protection or sport. I think it’s a little bit different here,” said Morris. “There’s always a concern, but I think we may be surprised at the people that are carrying now. Since it’s concealed, we don’t know. It’s an after-the-fact violation.”

While there’s still a long way to go on a concealed-carry policy for the school district, Morris said he was looking forward to cooperating with the working group tasked with putting the policy together.

“Nothing’s been set in stone yet. We don’t know what the Legislature may do,” said Morris. “I think that we’ve got a bunch of good people that are going to be involved in it. I think we can get all the concerns ironed out and get everybody on the same page for sure.”